From Wikia Help

[edit] Advice

Hey, Danny. Really sorry to bother you, but I really need your advice for something on a wiki I've been working on, but I'm not sure if it is appropriate for Wikia helpers to get involved with individual wikis. Is it? Please, I know you're really busy and all, but you're one of the few people with some experience at Wikia whom I know. Thanks! Ralnon (talk) 04:32, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. What's going on? -- Danny (talk) 06:28, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Well, as you know, from the first instance I have been involved on Wikia, I have been rather random with the Wikia projects I have been working with. However, at some point, I began to focus on a wiki called the RuneScape Wiki, which I found somewhat interesting to me. However, I had not gotten to know the community well, and though I had made now over seven hundred edits on its main articles as of now, I have encountered a small issue with a particular user in general, Chiafriend12. Though I was only trying to offer my input for the deletion of a single image (thus hopefully starting my interacting with the community as a whole and to offer my own input in minor matters), Chiafriend12 basically said that the community could use any number of curses, 'eat kindgarteners' and not offend anyone. At the least I felt this was somewhat pointless and irrelevant on the forum dealing with one unneeded image, and I was also confused as to why he singled me out from all others who supported the image's deletion. His exact words were: "You know that we have an article with "bitch", "fuck", "shit", "penis", "cunt", "nigger" and "anal sex" on it, right? We had a vote where we decided that we, as a community, liked to eat kindergarteners and wouldn't worry about offending people. :P"

While I believe that I may have overreacted in anger, I at least remained civil and contacted several other experienced editors on the wiki whom I believed could provide me with some advice. The opinions were actually rather mixed at first, but, well, it seems on the actual game of RuneScape, Chiafriend12 is close to many other players, many defended him. However, after consulting with many users, I started a new forum on the wiki's "Yew Grove": [1], on the advice of the first administrator I had contacted about the issue. The term "nigger" strikes me as particularly offensive, for instance, and I am confused as to Chiafriend12's intentions for mentioning it, for, though I have not spent as much time as he on this particular wikia, I am unsure as to if such langauge could be allowed in any situation, no matter how funny he would find using it. The wiki in question is a very popular one, albeit somewhat controversial in its forums (for example, it even started several Swearing Forums once on its community Yew Grove, in which many conflicting opinions were put in).

However, though at least four or five of the experienced users told me that Chiafriend12 really should not have said that, many others basically seemed amused at me, and after warning me not to raise the matter again, demanded I at once end the entire discussion, fearing I would 'tarnish' Chiafriend's reputation, in their own words. Also, I was quite willing to simply leave the community to satisfy their wishes, and to drop the issue, but I am confused as to why Chiafriend12 has, not, even after a week, bothered to send me one message. A friend of his, Gaz Lloyd, told me that Chiafriend12 wanted to speak to me privately, in-game, which, though seeming to me as rather pointless, as our discussion concerned the wiki and its users itself, not the actual game. I tried to contact him but could not do so. Even now, I receive no response, but many clear ones from his friends, whom he has appparently spoken to in the game. Basically their own defenses involve that I should directly contact him (which I had tried to do several times, both in the game and on his talk page, to no success) instead of putting this whole thing on the forum, but I only did so upon the advice of a sysop, drawing upon the precedence of such forums as the Swearing ones I mentioned above, and on the basis that this user has not yet replied to me for some reason, which those who argued for him did not address. Some users misunderstood the entire situation and thought I was offending him while I was instead addressing myself. Some have demanded I apologize for speaking these thoughts and leave.

Danny, I understand you are extremely busy at Wikia, and I truly, deeply, regret dragging you into such a childish issue. However, I beg you, can you only do this for me: Give me your own advice and opinion on the matter. I promise I shall not disturb you afterwards, but, in this, I am somewhat troubled, as I do not think I would have allowed such open cursing on any of the wikis I had previously worked with. I mean, just because the 'community' allows it, you can curse out at any user you want and not get in trouble? I still don't understand, and as Chiafriend12, though apparently aware of the situation, has refused to explain to me (nor has he replied to the messages other sysops have sent him asking him to explain to me his words), I'm really not sure who I can turn to for more advice. Thank you, Ralnon (talk) 21:49, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, here's my advice: I think what Chiafriend12 said was acceptable in the context of that conversation. He was listing words that appeared on another page, in order to explain the policy. I think you should forgive him. -- Danny (talk) 22:47, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

If he had not purposely ignored me for a week and had just directly told me that on my talk page, perhaps it would be easier for me to do so. However, I am in doubt as to his own reasons for avoiding me and the community, if indeed such an issue was so small. While perhaps not mandatory, is it not preferable, and a sign of maturity, in an administrator, for them to deal with any issue quickly and efficiently, not through privately messaging others in-game? I truly did try to contact him, and failed. Tell me this: Is this user, then completely not to be blamed? Am I the guilty one here? I have immense respect for any staff member or helper of Wikia, Danny, but in this, I must confess I really am confused. I may have overreacted, but, like, he was this stranger, okay? And a total stranger just calmly listing those words in an amused tone, on a page which was to discuss the deletion of a mere image, made me uncertain as to his exact meaning. At the very least he could have showed some more maturity by actually directly addressing the issue, not contacting his friends to defend him publicly through the game. And some of the things his friends said to defend him were just...completely false or a sign that they really have no clue what was going on. Also, I must point out that at least five of the blocked sysops of this wiki were banned for reasons along the lines of swearing, which, well, at the least, isn't the best indication of the community's sound judgement, to me, personally. Is it simply best for me to leave the wiki altogether, then? Should I have just laughed along with his 'joke', and have forgotten about the whole thing? Again, I am sorry for troubling you, but I do not know what else to do right now. Ralnon (talk) 21:45, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

I get the feeling that this kind of social confusion isn't unusual for you. I have a couple friends who have Asperger's syndrome, and the way that you're talking reminds me of the way that they talk when they're confused about a social situation. Is that something that you've experienced? -- Danny (talk) 22:10, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Please forgive me, Danny, but I must ask why you have said this. I am truly confused, but only at your sudden, unwarranted response. I at least have not worked upon the Muppet Wiki, which has a general audience of children. I at least have not blocked any of the users on multiple wikis to such a degree that they have threatened to 'sue' me. I do not find it funny, and unless you wish to call those who supported me mentally disturbed as well, I strongly advise you to explain yourself. I do not believe that I am confused at this, only increasingly sickened by this attitude. Perhaps you are close friends with this Chiafriend user, but I assure you that I am not. Kindly excuse me if I am wrong, but I and most people I know discuss Asperger's syndrome minimally, nor do I particularly care to befriend those diagnosed with it. I find it most curious you seem to be avoiding the many points I have mentioned. What is your point? Do you have Asperger's, then, Toughpigs? Please explain yourself more clearly, if you will, for I am not at all amused by this, no matter how funny you and he may find the situation. Ralnon (talk) 00:16, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I apologize. I don't take those subjects lightly at all; I was asking with a sincere intent to help. It sounds like I can't be helpful to you. -- Danny (talk) 00:25, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

You cannot help me, you say? Just because I'm not exactly pleased to hear that you think I have some kind of syndrome? With all due respect, I am truly unsure who is the socially confused one here, Danny. If you want, ask the other helpers and staff members, but I myself am getting truly tired of this whole thing. Ralnon (talk) 00:29, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I'm very sorry that I upset you; it wasn't my intention. I don't want to risk offending you any further, so I'll just offer my sincere apology. Please forgive me. -- Danny (talk) 00:32, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

P.S. To be honest, I truly am not certain what that is, as I have better things to do than research such irrelevant topics, though I at least am aware that is some form of autism. Again, I apologize if your friends are too deeply versed in psychology, and that anyone who is less enlightened is deemed socially confused. Again, though, do you have the syndrome? Is that why you have asked me, and for your friendship with such people? Then what was your 'intention'? I thought an official member of Wikia would have greater maturity that someone who likes to curse at me because I wanted to delete an image. How was I more to blame than him? Should I have just remained silent, as I was for the past months on the wiki? If you wish to help, Danny, please at least answer this. Ralnon (talk) 00:36, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

If you need Wikia help please use Special:Contact. ~Joey~ ”^Talk^” 01:12, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Joey, for your suggestion, but I truly do not wish for more Wikia members to become involved in an issue that I had initially thought could be easily resolved. However, I will certainly take your own suggestion into consideration, and you have my gratitude for stating it so. As you may have guessed, I am no longer active on Wikia, though I am sure this has pleased some users, at least, one of which I daresay might quite possibly be Danny himself, from his own comments directed towards me.

Danny, I truly, genuinely, do not understand your responses, and I shall admit I was rather offended and surprised by them. As you have been completely ignoring my last message for quite some time here, it is clear you no longer wish to continue such a discussion. My apologies for embarassing you and wasting your precious time here, but I did ask you whether I could discuss it with you, and you most kindly agreed. Do not get me wrong - I am indeed most grateful for your guidance and aid here, Danny, but I just can't feel very comfortable with someone who thinks I have a mental disorder just because I hold distaste for the comments of another user. I'm sorry if raising this issue has made you think I am 'socially confused', but if all other Wikia staff members and helpers share this view and responds in such a way to other users, I cannot help but feel ashamed at being here at all. Maybe I do have the syndrome, maybe I do not. I confess I cannot be certain I do not have it, as I have not extensively studied fields of autism and other mental conditions, but, to be blunt, it's none of your freaking business. Danny, I must say, I was truly saddened by your opinion of me, as I had not guessed you would think of me in such a manner, but now I cannot suppress the feeling that you, like this Chiafriend, do not give a crap about my own thoughts, and thus, in all honesty, it has made it difficult for me to continue to hold respect for even one as experienced and knowledgeable as yourself. Seriously, what do you think Chiafriend12 would say to you, merely on basis of your own work on certain wikis? Regardless of your own views on society and who is confused with it, well, in my own society, I would feel too bit ashamed to even dare mention Wikia at all to my friends, if even they know what it is.

I do not believe that either of us can help the other in any way any longer, and though I regret having involved you in this situation, I do appreciate you taking the time to try and help me, at least at first. Kindly rest assured, that, whether I am 'socially confused' or not, I will no longer bring any issue I may have to you, and never again will you find yourself forced into a conversation with one as troubled as I. I hope this is enough to satisfy you, Danny. I truly thought we could help each other here on Wikia and help it expand and grow, but clearly I was wrong. Well, it was not the only thing I was wrong about here. Best wishes, Ralnon (talk) 22:20, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Building a Community

I noted your page entitled Advice:Building a Community. I left a comment, but just in case you don't monitor it that much, I'm putting this on your talk page to get your attention. -- BruceG 19:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC)